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Cool article Quint
by kwisatzhaderach
Jun 23rd, 2009
07:24:03 AM
And a big yes to a series of articles on practical FX artists. All we hear about these days is CG animators.
Bloody JJ Abrams.
by Fortunesfool
Jun 23rd, 2009
07:27:11 AM
It's not fair that a lucky fucking hack like him gets into these events and walks around like he has some right to be there. Fuck off back to television and take your shaky-cam and ADD editing with you. For crying out loud. I cannot wait for the day everyone realises what a talentless idiot that bloke is.
Sorry Quint.
by Fortunesfool
Jun 23rd, 2009
07:28:21 AM
As usual and great piece with some top Dick jokes :)
Yes!
by starmand
Jun 23rd, 2009
07:38:30 AM
A series of articles on practical effects would be awesome!
Great article, Quint...
by Duncan Irons
Jun 23rd, 2009
07:48:58 AM
Thanks for sharing...
Man, what a great article.
by Stuntcock Mike
Jun 23rd, 2009
07:49:06 AM
Dick spawn.
Great article Quint!
by Marxeffect
Jun 23rd, 2009
07:58:27 AM
Once again I am hugely jealous. You're a better man than me for not making a dick joke though
I like the idea of more practical...
by Marxeffect
Jun 23rd, 2009
08:01:09 AM
effects targeted articles Quint. Empire online has just ran a good one on stop motion. Check it out http://www.empireonline.com/fe atures/evolution-of-stop-motio n/
You better do those articles!
by Boba Fat
Jun 23rd, 2009
08:08:25 AM
Do them now!!!
Where's Savini?
by Ronnie__Dobbs
Jun 23rd, 2009
08:31:47 AM
Delanghaarige---good call on Botten
A Truly Cool Article
by Shut the Fuck up Donny
Jun 23rd, 2009
08:33:01 AM
It made me wish I had tried to make more effort to pursue a job in special effects in my youth.

I'll admit I was completely ignorant to the fact that Kevin Haney did the special effects for Basket Case...Hilarious.

DO IT!!!
by THE TRUE PINBACK
Jun 23rd, 2009
08:51:44 AM
First off...congratulations on getting to attend this event...I am VERRRRRY jealous of you, you lucky bastard!!! And great article! NOw...PLEEEEEEZ do your series of pices on practical effects. I'm an affirmed spfx junkie and I would eat them up! Here's another idea for you to chew on...I'm a big fan of CINEFEX magazine-have 'em all-and on very rare occasions they have gone back to do retrospective articles on films that they didn'tr cover, like STAR WARS and 2001. But htere are quite a few that they haven't covered that deserve a look back. A look bact at the FX work of such films as the first two SUPERMAN films, BATTLE BEYOND THE STARS, FLASH GORDON and PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN: THE CURSE OF THE BLACK PEARL would be so friggin' cool! These are among some films that didn't get extensive FX coverage, but really deserve it. Something to think about anyway...thanks again fort the excellent coverage...and keep up the GREAT work!!! You keep the geek commmunity energized!
Enjoyable piece
by AlienFanatic
Jun 23rd, 2009
08:52:16 AM
Especially enjoyed the laugh about Stan Winston's talent for self-promotion. I hope that Hollywood always has room for practical effects. Sadly, seeing where Benjamin Button took digital makeup, and where Avatar will likely take it a step further, I fear the days of latex and spirit gum are gradually drawing to a close.
@FortunesFool
by AlienFanatic
Jun 23rd, 2009
08:54:43 AM
Jealous much? Seems to me that J.J. is a geek who made good. You and I may not care for his style, but many others do--and more power to him. From the tone of Quint's article, J.J. seems like great guy, and a bonafide geek. I wish him continued success.
This is good stuff to read....
by ufoclub1977
Jun 23rd, 2009
09:42:45 AM
I was one of those middle school kids who knew the difference between Bottin and Baker, Fullerton and Reardon, and the wide gap between Savini and Smith... I have tons of super 8 films with maquette's, makeup effects, gore, from back then. It's good to hear that these people (for the most part) are still recognized and celebrated. I can't believe Abrams had an Exorcist tongue... how did that happen?
Great article Quint.
by STLost
Jun 23rd, 2009
10:10:02 AM
It's fun to read about the "behind-the-scenes" guys that create the real magic in the movies.

Oh, and yes to more articles detailing practical effects work.

@alien fanatic
by Fortunesfool
Jun 23rd, 2009
10:12:33 AM
No one actually likes this style, everyone pisses and moans about ADD editing and shaky-cam. Abrams isn't a geek who made good, Abrams is a geek who made lots of money. In Hollywood that equals talent. Mi:3 and Star Trek were terrible bits of film-making. I truly believe the editing is an attempt to cover up a film-maker who hasn't shot anything which cuts together in a meaningful or sensible way. If he makes a competent, vaguely cinematic film at some point, then all credit to him. But it pisses me off to see him swan around Hollywood like he's God'd gift when he's done nothing to justify being there, except make lots of money. Especially in the esteemed company of some genuine gifted, creative people.
PRAISE FUCKING BALE.
by DANNYGLOVERS_DICKBLOOD
Jun 23rd, 2009
10:24:41 AM
Hey Quint
by STLost
Jun 23rd, 2009
10:35:07 AM
In the article the press lady told you not to speak with or photograph Dick Smith, except when he's by his bust. But then you take a picture of him when he's talking to JJ Abrams. Sneaky!
May have a been a long piece.
by gotilk
Jun 23rd, 2009
10:39:53 AM
But it was worth the time. Great article, felt like being there.
Shane Mahan is not a name you see
by Talkbacker with no name
Jun 23rd, 2009
10:52:15 AM
banded about at all when talking about effects and make up. Man, just look at what he has done as stan winston's right hand man over the years - creature effects coordinator for aliens and the first predator, makeup designer for penguin in batman returns all the way up to today where he is physical suit effects supervisor for Iron Man. I can't think of a better person to join the ranks of Baker and Smith in the near future.
in other words, quint
by Talkbacker with no name
Jun 23rd, 2009
11:02:06 AM
I'd like to see something on Shame and the people he works with post stan winston. I remember you ran a piece when the great man died where they talked about starting a new company. I for one would love to know how that is going now.
and when I say shame
by Talkbacker with no name
Jun 23rd, 2009
11:03:33 AM
I of course mean Shane :)
*Yawn*
by champvinyl
Jun 23rd, 2009
11:12:48 AM
Great article - Thank you Quint.
by BillyMayesHere
Jun 23rd, 2009
11:25:44 AM
... great job... Surprised Savini wasn't there?
Thanks champvinyl
by half vader
Jun 23rd, 2009
11:28:50 AM
for being such a DICK.
"This ended up being a horribly long piece"
by half vader
Jun 23rd, 2009
11:34:14 AM
Oh no it didn't. Thanks Quint. I emailed the academy about whether they'd ever post a transciption or a video or podcast, but no reply. I'm a monster (haw!) fan of makeup effects, and as I was unable to attend (being on the other side of the world I tried but couldn't make it), this post made my day.

Er, your camera didn't happen to have a video mode did it? ;)

Was Chris Walas there?
by half vader
Jun 23rd, 2009
11:36:21 AM
(while we're mentioning great oldschool guys) Can't see, group pic too small..
And Steve Johnson?
by half vader
Jun 23rd, 2009
11:43:42 AM
? Hmm. No-one's posting.
"How to Make a Monster"
by grampageezer
Jun 23rd, 2009
11:45:39 AM
I didn't get to read all the posts here, but does anybody else remember Dick Smith's "How to Make a Monster" make-up FX softcover magazine that came out in the 6os? I thought it was amazing. My favorite was the "Oatmeal Face" or the "Weird-Oh" with the ping pong eyes.
Awesome article Quint
by D.Vader
Jun 23rd, 2009
11:54:25 AM
I didn't know much about Dick Smith before, and I'm ashamed to say it. I'm glad you have this article up. It reminds me of the good old days when I used to learn so much from AICN.
Great Article!
by ElvisPresLeeHorsleyHarveyOswaldO prahWinFreeJackHorkheimer
Jun 23rd, 2009
11:58:05 AM
Thanks for that. Would love to read more like it.
I was there and it was great
by jerebo2
Jun 23rd, 2009
12:01:26 PM
One highlight was seeing John Landis stroll up my aisle (I've seen him at so many events; one of these days I should just introduce myself), and him commenting to someone that so many folks in the audience had worked on his films. He joked that he wanted to shout, "One hour lunch." The event was fantastic. Rick Baker was so humbled and gracious. My one complaint is that some of the film clips went on a little too long. (I mean we've all seen The Exorcist a million times, right?) And it would've been nice for more comments from Dick Smith. But all in all it was a fantastic evening. Even my wife who doesn't know anything about make up fx was very impressed.
Dick does not exist in this dojo
by Cobra--Kai
Jun 23rd, 2009
12:03:58 PM
Man when the great Dick's involved this innuendo thing writes itself.

Quint, well done old chap.

I also second, third, or fourth the call for a series of AICN articles on Special Effects, flagging up particular innovations and FX heavy movies from the last few decades - I'd go as far as to nominate you, Quint, to produce them. What do you say? Tempted?


by Cobra--Kai
Jun 23rd, 2009
12:13:13 PM
Pinback mentioned BATTLE BEYOND THE STARS and it's flicks like that and SWORD & THE SORCERER, and others that obviously didn't have much of a budget to work with, but thanks to the ingenuity of the Dick Smith's of this world they managed to turn out some really cool and effective FX for our entertainment.
In that first picture of Smith I thought...
by ZombieHeathLedger
Jun 23rd, 2009
12:15:07 PM
Jeez, that guy looks like Salieri from Amadeus, his skin, his wrinkles, etc. To further read that Smith used a mold of his own head for F. Murray Abraham to use completed the circle. Great article, Quint. Would've been cool if there'd been something on the great work Smith did on TAXI DRIVER, De Niro's Mohawk (not real), the mob guy's hand blown off, etc., but I guess Smith has had such as amazingly expansive career, you just can't cover everything.
the eerily accurate bust
by Gh0ulardi
Jun 23rd, 2009
12:16:44 PM
that giant Dick Smith head is tripping me out.

..it's amazing, Kazuhiro Tsuji did a sweet job, whoever he is.
I interviewed Shane Mahan when he was doing
by skimn
Jun 23rd, 2009
12:26:07 PM
a school production of Dracula in the bustling city of Greenville, Michigan. He was a very intelligent and nice guy, and it didn't surprise me one bit that he succeeded so well with Stan Winston. He worked on The Terminator also.
And yes, the Dick Smith bust is so accurate
by skimn
Jun 23rd, 2009
12:27:36 PM
it IS scary. So much better than the wax museum stuff.
YES QUINT!
by Davidhessstation
Jun 23rd, 2009
12:35:25 PM
Love the idea of seeing articles on practical effects! God bless make up artists and Dick Smith! Fuck CGI in the ass with an AIDS covered cock covered in slime!
Davidhessstation
by ZombieHeathLedger
Jun 23rd, 2009
12:56:40 PM
Once you've been fucked with an "AIDS covered cock" just how necessary exactly that it also be "covered in slime." Kinda anti-climactic and superfluous at that point, no?
Epic
by Kraken
Jun 23rd, 2009
12:57:28 PM
Well done buddy.
Really nice Quint, thanks for this!
by brokentusk
Jun 23rd, 2009
01:02:16 PM
Long read, but well worth it.
Damn, Dick's looking good for his age...
by Flip63Hole
Jun 23rd, 2009
02:28:35 PM
Seems like a fascinating and sweet man. Great article, Quint, thanks!
Slime
by Davidhessstation
Jun 23rd, 2009
02:41:00 PM
I was trying to add in something Dick Smith-y.
Great article, Quint
by DennisMM
Jun 23rd, 2009
03:08:16 PM
But, I must ask - what are you, twelve? You silently giggled when you heard the word "Dick"? That's pathetic.
JealousJealousJealousJealousJeal ousJealousJealous
by BenBraddock
Jun 23rd, 2009
03:15:21 PM
I'm jealous!!!
someone tell Tom Woodruff Jr....
by CENOBITE
Jun 23rd, 2009
03:19:21 PM
that it's time to retire from the ALIEN suit. I like my aliens super skinny and 7+ ft
Was this event filmed?
by KarlKolchak
Jun 23rd, 2009
03:20:02 PM
Like for a DVD extra or something? If not, that's a shame. Would've been perfect for The Exorcist Blu-ray.
Really nice piece
by Arteska
Jun 23rd, 2009
03:40:05 PM
Good to know there is still some real love for movies out there, even if it's hard to find on the internet.
pet squirrel is his penis
by TheExterminator
Jun 23rd, 2009
03:44:13 PM
baker is a paedo
One of the best pieces to be on here, EVER!
by Ecto-1
Jun 23rd, 2009
04:00:50 PM
Thanks Quint. This piece is up there with the tribute AICN did when Stan Winston passed away. In a CGI dominated industry it's great to see you guys flying the flag for practical make-up FX work. I can't wait to read your future pieces on this. Rob Bottin? There's no way he'd have been there with Rick Baker. It's a damn shame that Steve Johnson wasn't there as he's done some incredible work. He seems to have vanished from the industry. Maybe you can track him down Quint...
Thank you, Quint
by dogrobber
Jun 23rd, 2009
04:32:10 PM
Great article, and I would also like to add my vote for a series of articles on practical effects. And now I want to see if I can find my old copies of Starlog/Fangoria/Cinemagic.
Pilgrim
by Quint
Jun 23rd, 2009
04:37:33 PM
I don't hate CG at all. What I hate is the over-use of it and how that seems to limit most filmmakers blinded by the ability put anything they want on screen. In a weird way their hands are tied even tighter when they have the ability to realize anything they want. I have a lot of respect for CG artists and their own artistry, but computer effects rarely capture that lightning in a bottle magic that is gotten when these brilliant minds cobble together random things and build the illusion of a living, breathing creature. It's like the Apollo 13 astronauts taking random odds and ends to fix their fucking space ship. Just mindblowing to me.
Ed McMahon died today
by Eonz_Higlo
Jun 23rd, 2009
04:55:21 PM
sad.
Wonderful article Quint. Thank you.
by Genre_Baby
Jun 23rd, 2009
06:51:42 PM
I almost felt like I was there. Thanks for the excellent reporting and fun photos (just love Rick Baker). So nice to see Mr. Smith getting more recognition. The man deserves every bit of it.
Awesome
by JWAO
Jun 23rd, 2009
08:24:49 PM
That was great Quint, simply great.
Great job, Quint
by CherryValance
Jun 23rd, 2009
08:39:45 PM
You should definitely do those articles about effects. I don't know about most of this stuff and it's very informative. :D
"Sadly, seeing where Benjamin Button took digital makeup"
by half vader
Jun 23rd, 2009
11:46:50 PM
Alien - You probably don't realise (no offence intended) that the look of Benjamin Button's cg makeup was defined by the two gentlemen above - Rick Baker and Kazu Tsuji - in a number of incredible practical life-sized maquettes/silicon heads that were subsequently scanned to do the digital versions and also used as lighting reference.

Also, Button does not really infringe on practical makeup FX at all in my opinion. Rick Baker has always said, and Greg Cannom who did Button's practical makeup would probably also tell you (if I'm not being too presumptuous) that makeup is an ADDITIVE process. You build up detail, and add to what's there. You can't be gouging bits out of an actor's face and body! And building the face or body up so you can then take away is often obvious enough to defeat the point (although little big man is a brilliant example of the best way to achieve it through practical means). Ironically it's Smith and Baker's genius in overcoming this intrinsic limitation that sets them apart. But there's Baker's story about Tim Roth on Burton's Planet of the Apes that illustrates the conundrum very neatly.

CG allows you to do subtractive/reductive effects in a more straightforward manner, without having to allow for the effect elsewhere on the actor's face or body. Benjamin button is an extremely old character where the fatty deposits and effects of ageing have shrunk the facial features back to the bone. As this shrinking/thin effect can't be done the same way practically, I don't think it's fair to say BB's cg/digital makeup takes away from practical makeup in that case.

And while Smith and Baker have come up with ingenious ways to overcome the "nose" problem with designs like the blurred guy above, the faceless chick, the aforementioned apes and the Grinch, I don't think there's anything wrong with Davy Jones and Voldemort using cg to eliminate the need to allow for the effect by building up other areas. Same with half robot Terminator heads and variations like the hammerhead guy from Pirates where his eyes are so close to the top of the skull. Rule of thumb is that your eyes are at the halfway point on your head. No way around that. I appreciate the magic of visual distraction that oldschool brilliantly provides, but that doesn't mean digital is wrong for doing it more straightforwardly. Both Baker's own Judge character from Jackson's The Frighteners and the Faun and the Creepy eyeless fat/thin man in Del Toro's Pan's Labyrinth are great examples of practical and digital makeup fx doing what each do best, in harmony. I just get funny (and probably all preachy) when people profess to loving these artistic/technical disciplines but their objectivity goes out the window, as in the tired old "oldschool rulez/cg sux" simpleminded vendetta that's been going on here forever. One thing that elevates guys like Baker and Muren is that they're NOT close-minded, and their openness to new possibilities is of course why they've made such huge strides and taken their respective types of FX into the future. Everyone here probably knows the story of how Baker was completely opposed by the old guard in pushing animatronics. It's EXACTLY the same analogy with cg makeup. Another analogy comes from John Lasseter, who said, "Computers don't create computer animation any more than a pencil creates pencil animation. What creates computer animation is the artist". And whether it's makeup, cg or whatever, it's all just a means to an end and that end is the CHARACTER, not the technique. Our love and dissection of the art of prosthetic effects is diametrically opposed to the concerns of filmmakers in creating a character or narrative by any/the best means possible (with the moderators of time, production logistics, practicality and budget). Which is fine, but many fans don't recognise/confuse that they're heading in one direction and we're heading in the other.

At the risk of making a goofy Dad joke to everyone in the Tb, don't cut off your noses to spite your faces. I'm not sure if that's ironic or muddies the metaphor, but it's still appropriate!

Cheers.

"No way around that"
by half vader
Jun 23rd, 2009
11:49:41 PM
Unless you go digital and rub out the top part of the skull, is what I meant to write. Eloquent and concise I ain't.
That's what I'm sayin', Pilgrim.
by half vader
Jun 24th, 2009
04:31:47 AM
Ooh, I just came over all John Wayne-like!
BUT, in Quint's defence...
by half vader
Jun 24th, 2009
04:42:23 AM
Directors DO overdo it. In exactly the same boys-with-toys way as what's been happening the last 5 years or so with Pre-vis vs storyboards. And morphing before it. And shakeycam. And bloody lensflares. None of those ones seem to realise the most important consideration is CONTEXT.

But you're right. For decades I've been hearing/seeing/reading my heros say "it's just a tool" and for decades fanboys keep somehow missing it. There's a reason why guys like Muren and Tippett are still making better effects with the same tools (mainly) as everyone else - what I don't think Quint quite gets is that they carry the same sort of lateral problem-solving that fascinates him about the old stuff across to the new mediums too. Just a tool indeed.

Sorry for all the posts. This event just made me all excited...

yes half vader
by Talkbacker with no name
Jun 24th, 2009
05:40:27 AM
and didn't rick Baker say himself he learnt how to do cgi for those very reasons?
Things like this are never too long
by robhouston
Jun 24th, 2009
02:17:58 PM
when you talk about a legend like Dick Smith. It could have been twice the length and I would have still been there with you. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do a series on practical effects masters !!!!!
yeah TBer with no name
by half vader
Jun 25th, 2009
04:50:13 AM
And in no time flat he leapfrogged most of the other zbrush users, because of his knowledge of form, proportion, anatomy, gravity acting on features over time and all that other 'boring' stuff which doesn't actually have anything specifically to do with one particular medium. I'm gonna pull my finger out and make the leap myself (for sculpting). "Monstermaker" may not know the fancy "short-cuts" but what he achieves by bashing away with a basic understanding is just phenomenal. I like the stuff of his Dad (and the later "Popeye" version)!

Oh and yeah +1 for that series please.

In an amazing 3 TB spanning segue,
by half vader
Jun 26th, 2009
11:10:21 AM
I must say that before Jackson put a stop on the auction of all his cool collectables, I was looking real hard at his 'transformer' robot head that Rick Baker did. That thing was fantastic. Looked like a Tron-lion.
Reporting on this caliber of event...
by MooseMalloy
Jun 27th, 2009
10:52:59 AM
... requires an appropriate level of maturity. I think you've been around this game long enough Quint to realize this. Next time less personal interjections, more developed reporting style.
no savini?
by FleshMachine
Jun 27th, 2009
01:31:31 PM
hmm
Great article Quint!
by Cellar Door
Jul 7th, 2009
12:23:05 PM
These guys were more my heroes as a kid than many of the actors portraying the fictional heroes the effects guys and girls helped bring to life. Great article!

And yes, where's Tom Savini?

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